Content still has to be reviewed for inclusion. It must have an open source compatible license, must not be legally questionable. In addition, there are several additional restrictions for content:
Content must not be pornographic, or contain nudity, whether animated, simulated, or photographed. There are better places on the Internet to get porn.
Content should not be offensive (my italics), discriminatory, or derogatory. If you’re not sure if a piece of content is one of these things, it probably is.
All content is subject to review by FESCo, who has the final say on whether or not it can be included.
Besides, we don’t need to necessarily copy other distribution’s rules for acceptable content.
Perhaps, we should just say, “All apps and the content within must be family-friendly to enter the Snap Store. If your app is not family friendly, you may either remove the unacceptable content and then release it, or release to a different Snap Store than the official one.” Obviously, not these exact words, but build around that.
i agree with @kyrofa that someone should really contact upstream about the naming here … (how would the snap packager rename it without mentioning the upstream name somewhere after all)
While the Fedora Packaging policy is interesting. Note that I pasted a search from a Fedora 26 system. These applications are clearly not considered in breach of Fedora polcies. If they were, then I wouldn’t expect they’d show up.
The Fedora policy refers repeatedly to content not names. So if the content of the application was in breach then I presume they’d be rejected. But not the name. This may be an anomaly in their policy which they may have previously had deliberation over, but that’s their project decisions in the end.
I mentioned Ubuntu and Debian because Gustavo specifically asked for data on that.
Personally speaking I have no problem with application names with these words in. They are just words at the end of the day. My own kids have seen these words before, and I am certain many other kids who are able to code probably have too. While you or I may find the words distasteful or inappropriate, again, they’re just words.
Having a “family friendly” policy is dangerous too. Whose family? Who made that family the sole arbiter of what is wholesome. Should we ask North Korean, Chinese or Saudi Arabian families for their opinions too? Where would that get us?
I appreciate this discussion, and am frankly surprised it took this long to come up
In my opinion, we should seal this door shut forever as not allowed and be done. I started programming when I wasn’t even a teenager (before it was cool).
They pulled it from Debian. If you read up on Raspbian history, they took all Debian packages and rebuilt them to ARM. Still don’t get how it got through. I am pretty sure if I contacted the RPF, it would be deleted instantly.
Agreed, I said we shouldn’t have that wording, but I think you get what you mean. We need to spell it out clearly.
Yes, as @popey points out the question was specifically about packaging rather than in communication.
The brainfuck example is particularly interesting. I personally never interpreted it as offensive, and it would be a shame to be unable to have that term in the namd or summary of a package.
The comparison with the forum is also interesting. We wouldn’t reject a forum post on a brainfuck snap, and you can even find Brainfuck articles on Wikipedia. We would most likely also not moderate a post simply because it included the word “fuck”, assuming it followed the general guidelines otherwise.
On that basis, and on the more fundamental basis of apparent universal precedence in other software repositories, I take my vote back. We still should not accept wording that is discriminatory or offensive towards a person or group of people, but there’s apparently a finer line that certain snaps can walk without it being rejected.
@niemeyer Just because you don’t find it offensive could be a problem. There are many parents I know who would not accept the Snap Store immediately if it had that in the name. I think we should include what is in the name as well. I mean, isn’t there a reason why various combinations of that F-word aren’t allowed…
Problem is, if you try to please everyone, you please no-one. I find it interesting that the FCC bans the F-word or anything including the F-word on Public TV. We should copy that.*
You may want to step outside the bubble of US-centric media censorship. While I appreciate that may come over as rude, it’s not intended to be. The snap store is available to many more people than citizens of the fine United States of America. These words are not universally blocked around the world.
Go ask any Australian what word he uses when in the pub more than any other around friends. Tip: it’s also on your FCC list
Just because people outside the US use Snap Store does not mean the US’s advisory on those words is invalid. You’re attacking where the idea comes from rather than the idea itself.
Doesn’t make it right either. I think we’re at an impasse and will not agree on this one. So I’ll kindly disagree on this topic and let the store admins deal with this.
Well, exactly. Our main audience is not small children, and I bet that most people here would be pretty upset if we rejected brainfuck snaps on the basis of bad language.
Either way, that’s my feeling and my vote. I’ll let other people speak now.
Rejecting snaps on bad language isn’t a bad idea. It is a good idea for promoting the Snap Store. "
True, but there are places which may use the Snap Store which might. Try convincing the Raspberry Pi Foundation to use Snap Store in Raspbian if this is the case. According to their statistics, 1/3 of their Pi’s go to children (teenagers tend to fall into the adult hobbyist category).
Furthermore, there are other distributions which don’t allow expletives on their forums. Just having them there may make them reluctant to sign up. After all, Ubuntu has the tagline, “Humanity toward others.” It isn’t humanity to children to have apps named this way. Fedora tries to welcome all users, including children. Ubuntu had a Ubuntu for Education release (and still does).
To be clear, I didn’t mean to imply that. As someone who doesn’t even use such words at the bar, I take no offense at the name. But if I wrote it, it would have been called “theheck”, and who would use that?
I am totally against censoring snaps in the store. As noted throughout the thread, the snap does not violate our ToS.
Introducing mythical children who are interested in software development, but can’t deal with the fact that there’s software called Brainfuck or “thefuck” is a strawman. Both Ubuntu and Fedora include packages for brainfuck, because it’s of interest to their users.
We’re not about to make a PG13 version of the snap store to satisfy some vague definition of “family-friendly”
Okay, tell me this: Advocate to the Raspberry Pi Foundation (or other distributions) to accept Snap. You might have opinions, but they may too, and we may need to make room for them.
There is a reason Google Play and Apple Store don’t allow them.
Raspbian also contains Brainfuck. I updated my post above to show this, in addition to which it’s also in the Google Play and Apple iOS stores. I added those as a friend saw this thread and suggested they might be more comparable to the snap store in terms of goals.
