I don’t use snaps because my everyday packages are in apt repositories. There’s no reason for me to use snap if I can do an apt install.
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On the article:
Doesn’t 18.04 comes with snaps (the calculator or clock, I can’t remember) by default and this means that 18.04 use automatically increase snap use?
On developing:
For snap creation I would love some environment that is like a vm where I could unplug and plug things on the fly to discover exactly what plugs are needed. A GUI would be nice, a magical snapit command line tool that just spits the snapcraft.yaml is fine too (one can dream).
It would be cool being able to see the snapcraft.yaml/github/gitlab/source url when the snap has a permissive license, linked from the store.
Current badge has the link for build logs in build.snapcraft broken.
On using snaps:
As a snap user, a good GUI to install, discover and control snap permission, space occupied in disk and things like that - just copy everything app related from Android and you are good. Also being able to buy/donate money through the interface.
I would use snaps for things like themes, wallpaper packages, music, games, or things that are mostly a shell to web apps - currently I only have two snaps installed: slack and discord.
It would be interesting being able to have both edge and stable version of an app so one can predict problems and still be able to work, similar to how we have edge, stable and ESR for Firefox, something like being able to run the Edge, the latest stable, and the ubuntu 18.04 launch version of the software.
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Yes, 18.04 does include some pre-seeded snap applications which of course means more people are consequently using snaps. What is more interesting though is the growth of snaps not part of the image, that is skyrocketing. So while absolute numbers were not shared in that blog post for this and other reasons, we will follow-up with further analysis showing more key facts about snap usage, including the adoption of downloaded snaps.
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Thinking out loud, would something like “ESR” channel be something that would interest you? Or would you be looking for functionality to defer/block/ for offered updates? Or both?
There was mention of deferring the updates - - - at the time it was a whole month - - - maximum (now up to 2 months but it doesn’t alter the argument) so I did that. Sorry - - - - when one’s business isn’t being a geek a month all too often is a very short time. Tools are for using - - - - not for checking. Its a little bit like buying a commercial vehicle (semi let’s say). If you found out AFTER the purchase that you were expected to not only do your daily walk around but that you had to get someone from the sales company to accompany you on that walk around (checking visually for any obvious problems - - - - lights, tires, gross function stuff mainly) and that that representative was only available in a specific location - - - - that truck wouldn’t be in use the third month (after the need for the second assisted walk around) because that’s just too much headache even though it would mean that the walk around got done (larger truck lines would like that and the regulators in the industry would think that idea was the best thing since sliced bread!!!). In the forum topic on disabling snap updates/upgrades there was mention of a way to use IP filters to block said updates/upgrades - - - - so I implemented it. Oh the joy - - - now - - - in the 24 hrs after the monthly clock runs out - - - well - - - my server is shut down - - - I can’t pinpoint exactly that this ‘x’ is doing ‘that’ (I’m NOT an expert programmer with years of kernel experience I am a computer USER) but the logs show that somehow the server shuts itself down because of its internal conflict. As this behavior has happened 4 times now on exactly the time frame specified on the update/upgrade schedule - - - well to me it is quite clear where the issue originates (logic being used rather than finding the ‘smoking gun’ here). Now - - - even better - - - I used (forced to actually as there wasn’t a functional alternative) snapd to install another bit of kit so I tried to remove all items. Started with using snapd to remove its secondary and the using apt remove and purge to remove snapd. Funny - - - - there was NO way to remove some of the directories and files. (Yes I was using root and the command was rm -r (that command has caused me problems in the past because it is just so ‘effective’).) My guess it is the apparmor ‘magic’ inside things that is present now. So I asked about how to remove the grouping - - - well - - - the second bit of kit is a ‘special’ snap and to remove it is a 6 or 7 step process (wt$!!) but somehow its also not working - - - I may be forced to do a complete re-install to wipe these bits of cruft.
What other options would make Snaps compelling for your business case, btw?
At this point - - - - I don’t think there is anything that would convince me that Snaps are useful. Maybe if apt and .deb files disappeared I might re-examine things but now - - - even if an install is a 40 item (and 7 levels deep) dependency nightmare I don’t see using snaps.
The only reason I’m still here is that the secondary software that I installed (using snapd) has the potential to be so useful that I am still hoping that someone just might get it through to the dev team that business use is NOT hacker use but as the dev team doesn’t really have any ‘skin in the game’ (their income isn’t on the line if things aren’t functioning all the time) - - - - well they just don’t get it. Something like a recall by a car company. I’m remembering when ignition switches were a recall issue. As I understood the results - - - they were serious - - - there was a senior VP terminated (don’t know how many underlings) sales dropped and the stock price suffered for more than a few months as the issue unraveled. That’s business - - - when things don’t work - - - well there are consequences. Likely far too long but - - - - you asked and I’m taking too much time on this response but perhaps ONE person on the dev team just might understand - - - .
There are 2 reasons why I don’t use it at all:
-
Speed. Snap apps are veery slow to start running. Here, Atom editor takes ~8 seconds to start. Non-snap version takes ~1s.
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Themes. I don’t care about themes - to me, the simpler the better. But the problem here is not a “I can’t use my face as background”. It’s more a “I can’t see what I’m doing, because there’s no visual feedback”. On Atom editor, the “open file” dialog doesn’t show any “/” on paths. So, a “/home/daniel/something” is show as “homedanielsomething”. This is because, I presume, “/” is rendered by the theme (which is completely striped out on snap).
I love the idea of Snap, but for me it is impractical to use on the current stage.
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What distributing form of the software to be exact, the tiny Source field under the Details section isn’t enough. A visible badge on the app icon will be much adequate.
Yes. It should show a warning prompt to recommend the user to verify the maintenance status and publisher whenever:
- The snap has not been updated for a certain period, and
- The snap publisher is not a Verified Account (i.e. without the
)
@dabeegmon, thanks for the detailed explanation. I agree with you that software solutions need to be seamless, and there’s no reason for any extensive hacking to be needed. I was just wondering, apart from the obvious need for the ability to freeze software (on an enterprise cadence), if you can think of any ideas for a package manager that would make for a compelling business case. You don’t need to think of what’s currently there, but also what you envision in a product of that kind.
@loureirorg, thanks for this. On the topic of speed, if you do encounter performance problems, would it interest you to have an ability to quickly troubleshoot and/or understand why there might be a speed issue with a particular application? Out of interest, on what distro did you encounter the startup and theming issues?
@Lin-Buo-Ren, thanks for the clarifications.
Igor
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@Igor
What I’m looking for is quite simple yet very very difficult to do.
I’m looking for something that works (period - - - full stop). Something I don’t need to fiddle with because the dev decided they want something different here or there or this or that. Things work! Well on this basis apt (and all of its cousins) don’t really fill the bill either. BUT - - - - apt and its cousins allow me to work around most things and I get to bug the dev teams to remind them that adding all kinds of things that don’t get brought along in an $ apt install . . . is something that needs to be thought of. So - - - yes - - - there is room for a change.
I am very happy that Plex made it here. I was constantly getting those messages to upgrade to a new version that wasn’t available in the repositories. Hopefully this will solve that problem.
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Hello everyone,
I think it would be beneficial if snap packages could also install kernel modules from source and update them automatically in case the kernel gets updated. Debian and Ubuntu already have dkms in their repositories that takes care of driver updates. As far as I know, RHEL-based distros also provide dkms package, although not in main (CentOS has it in epel-release repo).
Thanks!
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